you carry that roadways with you all day long, my goal is to do the opposite. it is to give you something positive that stays with you, to lift you up and put you in a good mood. why wouldn't i do it? she also has out compliment cards with instructions to join the squad, to help spread smiles, kindness, and human connection. and we will leave you with our producer mike sons harry and tommy, who are here to remind us that it cost absolutely nothing to be kind. so right now, you might be awning, you might be rolling rising this is silly, it is goofy, it is romantic, it is naive, it is not. because the power of love and kindness, is everything. so i ask you, spread some kindness this week. on that no, i wish you a very good night. all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thank you for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of tomorrow.

>> >> thank you home for joining us this hour. i am jump into gun, because this has been a heck of a day in news. the united states supreme court for the first time ever has issued an ethics code for serving court justices, first time. first time in our history. and, honestly, we have had some terrible justices in our history. it's not like everyone before this was good, so we did not need rules. we had a justice resigned ahead of being probably impeached for alleged bribery. we had a supreme court justice reveal to have been in the kkk just a few weeks after he got referred to the court. we had a justice who was so antisemitic, he reportedly would not speak to one of his colleagues. you would not speak to justice brandeis for years, because justice brandeis was joyce. that guy was such a thorough jerk, when he died, not a single one of the other supreme court justices even bother to go to his funeral.

we have had some bad ones, i tell you. but we have never before had a hole with of the court has produced corruption scramble after corruption scandal, and not like esoteric illegally version of corruption that are hard to stand, things like, buy me an rv, by my mom a house, those kinds of financial corruption allegations. again, one after another after another, so, now, for the first time, we got a united states supreme court code of ethics. as of today. and, yes, it is kind of a hot mess. it is both obviously necessary, or something like this is obviously necessary, because that the unending litany of corruption scandals involving the current crop of conservative justices on the court, and also, it's kind of an impossible thing to do, just technically, because the supreme court is, there's a hint in the name, supreme. they are not really supposed to answer to anyone else, so, how do you hold them to account for complying with this ethics code? it is a mess. it is overdue, obviously needed, it is also a mess. my friend dolly left week will be here live tonight to talk about it, as soon as we found out that the supreme court had made the surprise move, we called dahlia right away, were able to get her for the knights show, looking for to that

conversation. also, looking ahead to tomorrow's news, we are expecting a giant protests tomorrow in washington d. c., something like 50,000 people are expected on the national mall tomorrow, which is a big number for a national mall protests, and this comes tomorrow at the tail end of what has been an intense few days of protests around the world, over the mounting death toll and the just unbearable suffering in gaza and israel. this was friday a new york, the latest in what is now almost daily series of pro palestinian protests, this one briefly shut down grand central station. this was also friday, the same day in qatar, and and jordan, and in lebanon, and a huge friday protests in yemen. on saturday, this was -- the cut this, a huge 300,000 person march, the biggest rally we have seen in the war. in london, included this on the steps of the national gallery, the number of shoes, the name tag with a name associated with each pair of shoes, each representing a child that has been killed in gaza this far in

this war. the same days that london event in saturday, these are protests in argentina and in barcelona and brussels and dublin, ireland. this is also saturday, berlin, edinburgh and paris. paris, some of the protesters despite photos of some of the journalists who have been killed while covering this war. there have been a lot already. these were all on saturday. ahead of this large march, on sunday, also in paris, this one is a march and rally against antisemitism. now, tomorrow in d. c., this big expected party city national mall is the call for the release of the israeli hostages that hamas has been holding, since the terrorist attacks on october 7th, more than a month now. this rally tomorrow on the national mall will be calling

for the release of the hostages, also called for solidarity with israel, family members of some of the people who are being held hostage will be speaking at the event, and that is tomorrow afternoon. you can see, all of these protests, just further up the pressure, here on the u.s. government and around the world. up in the pressure to find some revolution, two and the terror, to alleviate the dire situation for civilians in gaza, it's hard to imagine that it could get worse, but it is getting worse and worse there every day. the soaring death toll shows no sign of abating. president biden today said at the oval office that causes hospitals must be protected. he said he, quote, hopes and expects that israel will use what he called, less intrusive action related to hospitals in gaza. we shall see. we will see that big event in washington d. c. tomorrow, and then more protests sure to come here and around the world. there is a lot going on in that front. today, we also learned of the death of former president trump 's oldest sibling. his older sister, marianne trump berry. she was a respected federal judge in new jersey for most of her career. she was on, what is called, senior status on the bench, when her younger brother was elected president in 2016. senior status is a sort of semi retirement that federal judges can say and basically forever, but marianne trump did a very

unusual thing when her brother was president. she gave up seniors and resigned from the judiciary altogether, that was in 2019. it happened right after the new york times exposed her role in what the paper described as a decades-long pattern of the trump family engaging in what was alleged to be massive, systemic tax fraud. judge barry was alleged to not just be a financial beneficiary of the family tax fraud but, quote, she was in a position to influence the actions taken by her family. that is a serious, moral and potential legal opposition against anybody, in any line of work. but if you're a federal judge, that is a serious ethics allegation for a sitting federal judge. those kinds of allegations, a proven, but certainly by the

judicial code of conduct that applies to all federal judges other than the supreme court. so in the wake of the new york times reporting on judge berry 's involvement in this massive alleged tax fraud with her brother, president trump and other members of the trump family, the court that she sat on actually started investigating this as an ethics matter. and ten days at the d court confirmed that they had started investigating her for this alleged ethics breach, she resigned from the bench. she gave up her lifetime tenure as a judge, that is the one sure way that she could call off that investigation because the judicial conduct rules don't apply to retired judges, so she retired, suddenly, and without explanation, ten days after the investigation was announced, and that killed the investigation. it is honestly one of the most serious substantive scandals ever associated with a presidential family member, and we have had some doozies. but, giving up lifetime tenure on the federal bench to afford the investigation into the serious decade-long tax fraud allegations laid out against you, with documentation and enough times, specifically, it seemed, designed, in retirement,

designed to stop the investigation and let her get away with it? that, like i said, we have had some doozies when it has come to presidential family member ethics problem, but this race right up there. that's it, with this particular former president, this was like the 489th most serious scandal associated with him, so, it instantly became obscure trivia, basically, as soon as it happened. but it happened. and marianne trump berry passed away last night in her home in new york city. she was 86 years old. and i tell that story in part because, i think that there is important point here that relates, in some ways, to today's news, and it's the point about an institution, in this case, and institutional like the court, policing itself. there was no criminal case that was brought, based on trump

organization alleged fraud, describe by the new york times investors back in 2019, and no, i don't know why that is. i don't know why that was the basis of the prosecution of trump and his family members business, but whether or not they were ever going to be criminal charges brought against judge barry or president trump or anyone else involved in the alleged fraud, still, you had this institution, had the judiciary, had the court itself where judge barry worked, starting an investigation into the matter. and that investigation, depending on how it went, could have resulted in her being censored as a judge, reprimanded or impeached or removed from the bench. and the reason that was hanging over her and forced her into an unexpected retirement as a

judge, is because that institution decided to police itself. the judiciary has the sided in an interest doesn't institution to police itself, and maintaining its own standards, losing its own numbers to make sure that they sent up to the values that are professed by the institution. that dynamic, institutions policing themselves, upholding their values as institutions policing and their own members, holding their own representatives accountable for violation of the rules and the a fast of those organizations, regardless of the legal issues, regardless of the criminal law, that institutional self policing is an important thing. in our country and with any other. we saw this dynamic at work this weekend and another important institution, in another news story that very much flew under the radar. this weekend, pope francis, the

head of the catholic church took the very unusual stuff of removing the american catholic bishop from his job. this is a very, very rare thing, and the context here matters. you might remember that just before the january 6th attack on congress, like three weeks before the, in december 20, there was another day of crazy, right wing pro trump violence in the streets of washington d. c.. remember, this december 12th, 2020, the number of people stabbed, there were brought in the streets of washington, wanting fistfights and battles. this was a day when a black lives matter banner was stolen and burned from a d. c. church. the largest event in d. c. that the pro trump forces had organized on this day that evolved into violence and running battles, the largest event approaching forces had organized that there was something called the jericho march. this was a mike flynn thing, where stewart rhodes, a pro trump, right-wing pro trump paramilitary group, the oath keepers, went to jail on sedition charges. this is where stewart rhodes at

this event called for trump to evoke the insurrection american act. he used -- this jericho march was the thing that was tied in washington to coincide with the overturn the election rallies that happened at multiple state capitals all over at the same time. remember, this is december 12th, 2020. that night is where we saw the running battles in the streets of d. c., and larson, people being stabbed. and the violence there and radicalism, this was a pro trump radical warm up act for january six. that event, the jericka watch, the headline event of that day, included an address, speech from a sitting catholic bishop, from bishop joseph strickland, from texas. serving bishop serving an event, calling for the overthrow of the u.s. government, calling for the overthrow of the u.s. election results, including by

the use of the army, the u.s. military against u.s. citizens on u.s. soil. this bishop, from texas has been one of the most outspoken members of this strain in the american catholic church right now, where there are ultra right super political, pro trump priests and catholic leaders. that is not that weird. a lot of organizations have a lot of ideological diversity. it's not that crazy to expect that you'll see that in the church, nor are they seeing in any other institution, but the catholic church is an institution. and among ulta right catholic priest right now, things have been kind of bananas. we've got, for example, one altering priest in the state of wisconsin calling for pope francis to be assassinated, calling for the pope to be murdered. and we've got this bishop in texas, campaigning at a stop the steal, overthrow the government by force event. and so, this weekend, again, a little bit under the radar, given everything else going on, but the catholic church, the pope, this weekend, removed this u.s. catholic bishop in texas. that happened this weekend. and you see this in history to, in the 1930s, it was the

catholic priest. he had a massive radio audience. but it meant people listening to him weekly, at the time, the u.s. population was 103 million people. he became a hugely important figure on the american culture right by 1936, he was telling his listeners that when the ballot became useless in the united states, he would urge them to use bullets instead. he openly endorsed what he called the root of fascism. by 1938, he was defending not see mass violence against jewish people in germany. by 1939, he was depicting jews as a life sucking octopus that was dangling the united states. by 1941, he was touring on not seat military victories in europe, saying, the end result would be that would create, quote, a united states of europe, which he set would appeal to americans, despite all of the propaganda, aimed at the sparging. therefore, americans should root for hitler to win. by the time, a cell of the armed paramilitary group that he had formed among his radio listeners, have been put on trial in new york for sedition, for stockpiling bombs and planning the assassination of multiple members of congress and the ballot overthrow of the

u.s. government. by 1942, the u.s. military had banned his publications from being shipped to u.s. military bases, then his publication was just banned from u.s. mail. after individual radio stations first started to walk at carrying his increasingly pro hitler, increasing the antisemitic rants, finally, the catholic church itself pulled the plug on him and told father that his radio days were over. busted back down to the status of a regular parish or. again, in terms of the sort of policing at work here, he was never criminally charged with anything. we know now that the justice department get developed a good case against him, as he paid for an agent for his powers. he also seemed to have developed a good case against him for tax evasion, but they did not charge him. and the important part here is that even without action by the justice department and the

criminal law, these other institutions stepped up. the u.s. military, the u.s. postal office, crucially and belatedly, the catholic church deciding that somebody praising pogrom, praising an institution for a fascist, victorian dictatorship in the night states, that is not okay with them, given that he represented the church, that he was part of the church. they finally decided after years of being too afraid to do it, they finally decided that, you can atkinson's official to stop helping this lie, to self police, to not let him use them as an institution, to accomplish what he was trying to accomplish, which they finally decided was too much against their values to stand for. it took years, but they got their. now, tonight, here is the headline, in the new york times, , quote, accused of echoing fascist, trump campaign warns its critics will be, quote, crushed. accused of echoing fascist. you either are echoing fascist,

or you aren't. despite the sort of pulling the punch element of that headline, the sub headline of that story tonight in the dark times does get there a little bit more directly with their sub had. it says, quote, the former president likened political opponents to vermin, similar to the dehumanizing rhetoric yielded by dictators like hitler and mussolini. the washington post headline just got there more directly, headline. trump calls political enemies of urban, equating dictators like willie and hitler. the quote from trump was this, he said, quote, or rule out the communists, marxists, fascist and radical left dogs that live like vermin within the confines of our country, lie, steal and gianna elections, and will do anything possible, whether

legally or illegally, to destroy america, and the american dream. the threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous and grave dandy threat from within. the threat from london. the former president made these comments in a veterans day speech. they did not appear to be -- they appear to have been written as part of the speech, and something he read off this teleprompter, by all appearances. even if by some chance, they weren't in the teleprompter for that speech, he certainly made clear that human temperature, and he had them just like that, when he put them in writing, in a social media posts, it's the exact same language, used the same word, vermin, after being delivered, the speech in new hampshire. this is not subtle.

everybody knows what this means. if you know one thing about mass murdering dictators and history, it's that they referred to the people that they want the mass murder as vermin, past, rats, insects, termites, anything to make their followers see those people as something to be eliminated, not someone, you might know. professor ruth ben here, who is the author of strongmen today, said all of this is part of an effort to reeducate merkens to see violence is justified, patriotic and even morally righteous. but to get people to lose their aversion to violence, sat the authoritarians also the humanized their enemies. that is what trump is doing. trying to get people to lose their perversion, their natural provision. and this comes at a time, one washington post, of course, recently reported that trump's advisers are working on a plan

to evoke the east insurrection act on his first day of, office which would give him, the power that the pro trump paramilitary's were calling for a january six, given the power from day one to use the u.s. military, the u.s. army, against american civilians on u.s. streets, it comes at a time where the new york times newly-reporting as of this weekend that trump's advisers are planning to build camps in the united states, camps capable of holding millions of people, once he is back in office. they plan to put millions of people in camps, in the united states. and they plan to do it using military, rather than by passing some new legislation, that might make it seem illegal. they planted just do it

unilaterally. again, using the military, building camps to hold millions of people is a military force against iran people, saying air political opponents are vermin, must be rooted out and crushed through say the country. none of this is subtle. and, apparently, none of this is an accident. these things are not being rooted out accidentally, right? they're in the speech, in the social media posts. the supposed plans for the administration are being technically leak. as of tonight, the trump campaign put out a statement officially disavowing all reported plans, but the supposed leaks are also accompanied in many instances by on the record interviews with some of trump's most

senior advisers, people putting their name to it and explicitly confirming these plants. and, again, to be clear, this talk about exterminating the vermin in this country was not an at lip. it's a repeated lie now. he want to be known for the, she wants everybody to know that this is the language he is using, and the fact that is happening at, once were reporting on the camps that they're putting people in, the military force against civilians, the vermont speech and all the statements about it, the fact that this all happened at once, presumably means is

the announcement that they are rolling out on purpose because, why? because it's exciting to his followers, the transgressive throw of yet more lines being -- more people being shocked and scared, assaulted and offended. that is the transgressive bureau of trump's radicalism. yes, it's an effort to intimidate his opponents, but also to excite's followers, especially as he really does seem to be trying to get that them excited about the possibility of cathartic violence against trump's enemies.

he knows he is going to get called a fascist for talking this way, for proposing things like this. he's inviting it, and he's calling on his opponents, fascists, trying to rob that word of its meeting, call me a fascist, and then i'll call you a fascist, that word will become something that we throw around, and it is not actually attached anything real, and will thereby robbed of his power. sure, call me a fascist, i'll call you a fascist. . that's the question. here's the question, what's the

institution in our country that will find that intolerable, and we'll see this is something that is happening on it patch which needs the focus. what is the institution that is going to feel the need to self police when it comes to somebody speaking on their behalf like this, espousing these kinds of things? there is no torture to shut down a father coughlin or -- there is no judiciary to launch an ethics inquiry. there is no criminal loss for inaction here. as americans, we have the constitutional right to a spouse and say even the worst political ideas without --

there is no bar association to make his law license. there is no radio or tv network to say, we're not hosting a show anymore. what is the institution here that the sides that this is on their patch. what is the institution here that the sides, you can never espouse things like this and also be part of them and also represent them. there is only one. it's his political party. which, when he is running to be the republican nominee for president of the united states. means that he is contending to lead the party. while promising that he will build camps to hold millions of people in this country and he'll use the military against american civilians, and a sprinkle upon is our vermont will be crushed and exterminated. that is the test ear. he's not running as an independent. he's not running as the trump for president candidate. he is running as the republican.

he wants to be the republican nominee for president, and so, that is the only institution, that is the institution that is being tested here. this is him testing the political party that he says he is going to lead, testing down now, when you're out from the election, to see what they will tolerate as an institution. which means every single member of that party will not to answer whether this is who they are, whether this is what they stand for, whether this is the cause of their party. we know from history, that a country under that does not stand up for itself amorphous the, with some sort of specific objection that were announced to the publishing a large. it works that way like infection. in real life, a country under the stands up for itself until the institution that makes up the specific and political life into the country, says what they are for and what they can no longer state. there is only one institution

in the country that is implicated by what he's doing, and he is testing them. that is the point where we are. he has forced. 10? 10? test technology for the newest vehicles. and we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: don't wait-- schedule now. ♪ pop music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. i was a bit nervous at first but then i figured it's just walking, right? [dog barks] oh. no it's just a bunny! calm down taco. sit duchess. stop! sesame no no. archie! walter don't, no, ahhhh. ahhhhh! you're lucky you're so cute. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪

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challenge the election results was essentially over. he's had to, me and an excited, tone we do not care, and we are not going to leave. i said what do you mean? he said, the boss, meaning president trump and everyone understood that is what we all called him. he said, the boss is not going to leave under new circumstances, we are just going to stay in power. and i said to, him it does not quite work that way. he said, we do not care. >> he said we do not care. that is newly-obtained video obtained by the washington post. this former trump lawyer -- speaking to fulton county prosecutors. now she has since pled guilty and thrown herself on the mercy of the court, making a tearful elocution with the court about her regret for her role in president trump's efforts to stay in, power despite losing the election. and that video, she says despite losing the 2020 reelection effort, trump did plan to stay in the white house,

quote, under any circumstances. she says, when she told one of trump's top advisor said does not work, that way he responded by saying we do not care. joining us now is nbc news presidential historian michael -- thank you so much for being here, i've been looking for to talk to all day. >> me as, well rachel, great to see you. >> i do not go to you often just because something has happened where the former president has said something scary, or something outrageous, or something where he is -- asking us to respond. >> you have self restraint. >> you have, to otherwise you end up, he knows how to get the media to talk about -- >> he pulls our chance. >> i hate that more than anything. i don't like doing stuff that other people want me to do. but the reason i wanted to talk about this instance, i do feel like it is a sort of historically important moment. is there any u.s. historical precedent of a major candidate saying he will stay in office

despite losing reelection? or, using the kind of elimination honest rhetoric that we have seen presidential now use about his political opponents, saying they are vermin -- >> not even close. that is what i'm worried about. people will hear the stuff and become numb to it and think this is something that is standard for a presidential candidate to talk about fellow americans as vermin need to be rooted out, or making the other -- he has made about the spending of the constitution, or the one that you mentioned about possibility of military dictatorship at the hands of a president who is an autocrat meaning trump back in office. i guess what i worry about is, you talk about -- and i haven't talked to on her since, and why loud to congratulate you on the great new -- >> thank you. >> you will not like my mentioning, it because you are too modest and elegant, but i'm doing this without being asked.

must some of the most chilling stories about -- are in that book, this radio priest just as you are saying, millions of listeners on the radio, raise millions of dollars. he wasn't running for president, and he did not sound as bad as donald trump is sounding the last 48 hours. we have never before since 1817, 89, seen a major party of the presidential candidate with these types of threats of violence. and you know, autocracy, and one might even think, conceivably, threaten the lives of people -- he said today, the people who oppose the president, and who accused the president of saying the wrong thing should be in danger of having their phrase was, their -- existence crushed. that is language we had never heard of before from a

candidate or spokesperson. >> on the issue -- of the reason i brought him, up it is not because i'm super interested in his antisemitism, and has embraced the fascism, and all the ways in which he was bad. i am interested in the fact that he was apparently taking money from the nazism, and the question of whether or not they would indict him. there's a lot of interesting storytelling to be done there. >> exactly. >> the thing that is interesting to me in terms of our present moment, and that we history can hopefully help here, is the fact that so many different institutions, not the criminal law, different institutions stood up to say to -- you are not going to organize antisemitic -- in a violent overthrow of the u.s. government, here not with our help. it was institutions, and u.s. civic life, it was the church famously, but also the owners of radio stations, and the u.s. military barring this publication --

the siding this was something to be safe and sound through the mail, so he was deplatformed in a way by a lot of different institutions, and ultimately removed from the radius that god gave him that massive audience. the institution standing up and policing it, have we seen important institutions in the united states police their own representatives, police themselves in a way that has been effective against the kind of danger in the past? >> sure. the most important one is a president who loves the democracy, and saves us from the abyss. that is what franklin roosevelt did in 1940, my thing we americans have to join the role and stand up against hitler, and actually, you know the story, rachel, roosevelt -- a deal with the vatican to have -- saying this was a danger to america. this is not a good thing for your priest or -- to be saying these things. not great for relations with

the united states. so as -- on the side of democracy, said he should stop doing this, and he did not have that kind of dangerous effect during the war. and you see where i'm going. here we are in 2023, 2024, people will be dissatisfied with the democratic nominee so -- joe biden, or even someone else. on the other side, it is going to be a party just like you have been, saying rachel, that is silent about a potential front runner, or an actual front runner donald trump who is talking about fascism and suspending the constitution, and sending military soldiers to suppress dissented every city of the country. that is what we are dealing with. so we could very well a year from this month have a pretty stark choice, that is one presidential candidate, major, party who is defending democracy as well as -- in 1940 and another who if he

is elected could take us down the road of -- another dictators in other dark history of the world and that is as historic as this is and i think if people get sidetracked and say i prefer the third party candidate, or i did not like something that joe biden did in 2022, you know fine. but this is the central choice. every one of our friends who is watching tonight, taking that choice very seriously. >> and d.c. news, presidential historian -- thank you very much for being here. sober stuff. thank, you we will be right, back stay with us. ck stay with us.

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circus. -- two's legislative, that is congress. three, judiciary, -- my circus, no one can be a -- anemia they're. each controls of the other. that is what we call -- well ounces. >> it is not the catalyst of the school house rock songs, but the point of the song still

stands as does the animation. we have a three ring government. we have the executive, legislative, judicial, those three rings of government all come equal. the president, the congress, and the court can check and balance each other, but there is no entity above any of them that can swoop in and fixed one of them. when something seems to be going wrong. figuring out how to regulate, or constrain one of those three branches of government, that is a very difficult as a constitutional matter. but you know where else is hard, watching a snowballing -- of ethical scandals out of the united states supreme court have been revealed in the press. the billionaire friends with the private jets, and -- the weird realist a, deals all of these conservative justices have come under scrutiny, calls amounted for some kinds of ethics enforcement at the

supreme court, that has also been hard to watch -- ranging from dismissive, to outright hostile to the scrutiny they have been under from the press. all of that has made all the more surprising that this is the headline today. chief justice john roberts unveiling what the -- have been insisting they do not want to -- a code of conduct for the supreme court. and who will enforce this supreme court code of conduct? yes, the answer to that is as much of a mess as you might expect. that is it. stay with us. stay with us i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection.

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ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. -- >> quote, the absence of a code has let dinners eight years to the misunderstanding that the justices of this court unlike all the other jobs in this country regard themselves this unrestricted by any ethics rules. to dispel this misunderstanding, we are issuing this code. so they are only doing it to dispel this misunderstanding about how closely they have been following the ethics. so, paying off a supreme court justice with an rv, buying his mom a house, or the private jet and yacht trips, that was all a misunderstanding by us the american public about just how ethical that really is. or something. joining us now -- is legal correspondent and senior editor at, slate also the editor of lady justice, women, the, law and the battle to save america.

great to see, you thank you so much for being here. >> good to see, you rachel. how do you see this news that the supreme court has for the first time issued an ethics note, an ethics advisory that is apparently for us, but maybe not for them. >> i like to think of it as an ethics aspiration. it is a little -- it is the court saying, it is not us, it is you. you misunderstood our ethics rules, and so let us explain again, these outstanding ethics rules we have not about it by, but if we explain the mcgahn you will understand. you are right to be cynical, rachel. i think i want to say something in at the vein of what you and michael were just talking about. it is, it feels like it is a joke that this is how institutions police themselves,

but it matters a little bit that the supreme court for the first time in history responds to an american public demands that it -- and so, i'm not happy about these rules which are purely advisory, which everyone is going to tell you is no enforcement mechanism, it feels like more of the justice gaslighting, us and telling us we misunderstood the ethics rules all along. it matters a little bit to me that the justices kavanaugh and barrett, and kagan, and the chief justice think this is important enough to do right now. and so, i want to be as grumpy as you are, because these are not real rules, but i also want to signal that i think as far as institutions policing themselves, go with the fact that the u.s. supreme court for the first time in history takes note of american public fury at

us ethics violations, matters a tiny bit. >> the responsiveness itself is an important part of the story here. them recognizing the legitimacy does depend on us believing that they have legitimacy, and that our pinion as a public matters. i take your point on that. on the specifics of what they put in print today, is -- did they clarify their ethical roles in any way that would make a difference in any of the high-level headlines candles that we have seen that really plain corruption and bribery scandals among a number of these judges. >> now. it is the very opposite of, that rachel. to the extent that courts are meant to -- rules that either means something looking backward or forward, this doesn't either. looking backward, it seems to -- have the worst behavior we have

seen. going forward, this isn't a pledge or promise, this isn't binding as everybody has said. there's no mechanism by which to investigate, or enforce these rules. so this is really like a hallmark part from the court to, us saying trust us this time, we will adhere to these rules that we promise we have adhere to all along. it should make us feel good about going forward, justices committing to something and because they will all decide for themselves. so no. this is not a code of ethics and that can be cast in amber to mean something. i think it signals a court that wants to be in some kind of conversation. a conversation is a generous word. let's call it a sermon on the mount. but i think an attempt to say holy cow, our popularity ratings are plummeting, our behavior has been appalling. people get that.

they do not think there should be a scenario in which multibillionaire us are determining what -- how those cases are decided. they get that now. i think that the fact the justices thomas and alito to not fully sign on to change their conduct isn't the and game here. the and the game is a court that feels it has the answers to us, i think that matters a little bit. >> i hear you. i think that is right. dolly, that is the kind of conversation i am always enjoying having with you. you always teach me something. thank you for being here tonight. >> back at, you rachel. >> all right, we will be right back, stay with us. back, stay with us laces you'd like to be. like here. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis.

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learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. comcast business. powering possibilities. >> thanks for being with us tonight. one quick, no i will be on the late show with stephen colbert tomorrow night to talk about my new book for equal, america fighting its fascism, i will be there with stephen colbert tomorrow, night and i will see you back here on monday.

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